But Joel would accept an Anheuser Busch can...
There's a lot of controversy in the fundamentalist circles over a Larry King interview with Joel Osteen. Specifically:
KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?
OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.
KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?
OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.
KING: You've been criticized for that, haven't you?
OSTEEN: I have. I have. Because I don't know....
KING: You're nondenominational?
OSTEEN: We are, we are.
KING: Your father, though, was ...
OSTEEN: He was Southern Baptist. But he left that way back in the early '60s. And then he just started Lakewood Church. And we've always been independent and just for everybody....
KING: Is it hard to lead a Christian life?
OSTEEN: I don't think it's that hard. To me it's fun. We have joy and happiness. Our family -- I don't feel like that at all. I'm not trying to follow a set of rules and stuff. I'm just living my life.
KING: But you have rules, don't you?
OSTEEN: We do have rules. But the main rule to me is to honor God with your life. To life a life of integrity. Not be selfish. You know, help others. But that's really the essence of the Christian faith.
KING: That we live in deeds?
OSTEEN: I don't know. What do you mean by that?
KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.
OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus....
KING: What is the prosperity gospel?
OSTEEN: I think the prosperity gospel in general is -- well I don't know. I hear it too. I don't know. I think what sometimes you see is it's just all about money. That's not what I believe. It's the attitude of your heart, and so you know, we believe -- but I do believe this, that God wants us to be blessed. He wants us to be able to send our kids to college, excel in our careers. But prosperity to me, Larry, is not just money, it's having health. What good is money if you don't have health?...
OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.
KING: You don't call them sinners?
OSTEEN: I don't.
KING: Is that a word you don't use?
OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.
KING: You believe in the Bible literally?
OSTEEN: I do, I do.
KING: Noah had an ark and Adam and Eve?
OSTEEN: I do. I do. I believe that. I believe it all.
KING: Isn't it hard to accept that one day appeared two people and they ate an apple and ...
OSTEEN: It is. But it's also hard, too, to look at our bodies and say, my brother's a surgeon, how could our bodies be made like this? We couldn't have just come from something. It's just hard, when my child was born I thought seeing him in the little sonogram I thought look at that. He's got eyes. How is that developing? It's just, I don't know. I look at it like that.
In his defense, I will say that I don't know the mind of God either. But Osteen's views have earned him some controversy:
Well the rich young ruler did not know he was sinful though he did know God’s commandments, he needed Jesus to tell him about the law he did not keep. Have we improved on this? Jesus Christ spoke on Hell often, would Joel (and others) dismiss this as unnecessary or offensive. What if Jesus were here today speaking on hell would they ask him to keep quiet?
Move over Robert Schuller, the Church of Laodicea has a new star on the rise in the world of positive motivational Christianity....Osteen preaches the new modernized gospel that is increasing the number of tares and goats in the visible church. "It's the goodness of God that leads people to repentance," Osteen asserts carefully avoiding the dreaded word 'sin.'
He seldom mentions Jesus, and only mentions the Bible in passing. Osteen preaches a message that is not distinctly Christian, and in truth is not much different from what you might hear coming from Anthony Robbins or any other motivational, feel-good speaker. He deliberately avoids preaching the full Gospel message....Michael Horton correctly summarizes Osteen's preaching, saying that it "sort of treats the Bible as a collection of fortune cookies. If you claim the right verses, then you can have health, wealth and happiness."
On the other hand, Both Worlds says the following "in defense of Joel Osteen":
Osteen is being subjected to controversy due to the content of his sermons, which critics say emphasize too much psychology and too little Gospel. Some critics have crossed a line and accuse Osteen of being apostate and a false teacher....One specifically said that Osteen was "clueless, "evil" and "apostate," stating affirmatively that Osteen was not just one of these things, but "ALL of them" and more....
Time and again I have seen people who have some Christian knowledge lash out against someone with whom they disagree without ever considering their own spirit first. It amazes me how many people feel free to condemn other Christians personally and by name as if this were a political arena and not the Body of Christ.
Having read Osteen's book I cannot deny that I have been greatly helped by it. Osteen does emphasize positive thinking. But psychology is part of our God-created humanity. Who is supposed to help us with it? Sigmund Freud? Surely God’s word has something to say about it, and it does. Christians are human and so DO tend to think too negatively. We DO think about our problems more than the Solution. We DO doubt God's promises. We DO miss out on God's best. Osteen provides tools to break through that negativity....
One blogger who condemned Osteen wrote in conclusion about him “you will never get to know Jesus listening to him. Never.” In my experience, this statement is manifestly false. Osteen’s teaching has brought me closer to Jesus by helping me break through those negative barriers in my mind which keep me from Him.
I do not feel I am a shallow Christian. I know the Bible and have studied it for years. I know Christ and him crucified. I believe in the incarnated, crucified, resurrected and ascended Christ. I believe Jesus Christ is God and man and is the sacrifice for the sins of the world and that salvation and a relationship with God is acquired only through believing in this Jesus Christ.
I believe Joel Osteen believes in this Christ as well. Some accuse Osteen of being essentially the same as Anthony Robbins....The similarities are superficial. There is no power behind Robbins' words. There is behind Osteen's. And according to my discernment, that power is the Spirit of God. When I read Osteen I feel closer to God and more hopeful that He will do a good work in me.
If Osteen said what he preaches is the be-all and end-all then, yes, he would have a problem. But he doesn't. He clearly says that he feels called to preach the way he does and does not necessarily consider himself an evangelist....
This post resulted in the following reply:
[The commenter's negative statement about Osteen] wasn't an attack. It was a conclusion based on what Osteen says and doesn't say. I never said bad thing 1 about him, his church, his salary, his lifestyle, his morals etc. I read. No Jesus. No Gospel= No evangelical. It's that simple....
He is perfectly comfortable being called a motivational speaker. He says so over and over. He calls the cross "all that stuff" that he believes by CHOOSES not to mention.
Another commenter mentioned Laodicea again:
I think Jeremiah describes it best as we are now seeing first hand the fruits and the rise of the Church of Laodicea. I attended Lakewood many times while living in Houston and if I were to personally encounter Joel himself, I would give him a handshake or a smile but I like many others fear greatly for this teacher as he is plainly spreading heresy or a luke-warm watered down gospel. Jeus spoke of these things to come in the end days so why am I like many others not suprised?
We have entered an unprecedented time where the gospel of self and self-gain is being taught in epedemic proportions and the Word of Faith teachings have almost completely obliterated the truths,who Jesus was and why He came here. I am sorry my friend but in the Love of Messiah Yeshua Jesus, you are in error to support this brother's false doctrines.
There is a seperation occuring world wide or a mass exodus of Beleivers who can no longer except or support the prosperity, me-me gospel.
So what was said about Laodicea in Revelation 3:14-19? (And I'll probably attract flames for quoting from the NIV. So be it.)
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
Well, the modern day war against the churches of Laodicea takes some interesting paths:
If you really want to get public outrcy going, open a doggie abortion clinic. You'll have thousands of outraged Americans waving placards and pounding down the doors of the clinic. Geraldo will be outside the clinic reporting live, with tears streaming down his face and Congress would get in on the act immediately. A LAW is needed, we would hear Senator Kennedy roar, to stop this barbarism. In these days of American decadence as society spins more and more out of control, we see how animals are now pampered and elevated to god status while human beings are being slaughtered and thrown into incinerators in clinics....
Pyromanic is, of all things, more down to earth (in a manner of speaking):
Nowadays we see book after book being published on ministry philosophy, church-growth strategy, and Christian leadership—virtually all urging church leaders to compromise, conform, accommodate, adapt, and adopt the language and thinking of the world. Youth Specialties and Zondervan...have built a major industry publishing how-to books that teach young pastors and youth leaders how to suit their style to the latest worldly trends....
I'm not saying we should give up on reaching the world or be passive and silent. On the contrary, I think we should turn up the volume. But I'm also saying this: Don't distrust the weapons Christ has entrusted to His church. Don't underestimate the power of the plain word of God or the influence of clear and dynamic preaching....Only the word of God is "quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
Comments